Thank you for joining the debate.

Regarding Canadian versus Chinese food, I must say that homegrown Canadian food – in the English-speaking areas of the country, that is; Quebec food isn’t Parisian haute cuisine, but it’s not too bad either – isn’t great. Maybe that’s why ethnic restaurants have proliferated so much here!

With regard to multiculturalism, I have some problems with it, but I’m not sure the policy per se is responsible for Canada’s lack of a strong identity. I think most Anglophone nations, other than the United States, which perhaps made a special effort to forge its own identity after separating forcefully from Britain, have never attempted to “proselytize” their culture. For instance, in Britain itself and in Australia, there was always the notion that newcomers could to an extent keep their own traditions (now of course there’s been some debate following things like the bombing of the London transit system in 2005). Even in colonial times Britain never tried to change the natives of the places they conquered the way, say, the French or Portuguese did.

Now the province of Quebec has always been more forceful about insisting that newcomers adapt to local life. For instance, they insist that immigrants learn French, whereas the Anglophone parts of Canada have always been more lax in making newcomers learn English. Recently the town of Herouxville in Quebec was the centre of a controversy after they wrote a memorandum saying that immigrants must accept Quebec’s customs (the underlying notion was that it was aimed at Muslim immigrants).

As a Canadian myself, I don’t think we’ll ever be flag-waving patriots the way the Americans are. But I still maintain that immigrants have to adapt to the Canadian way of life.

I am a Chilean and former immigrant in Canada. I lived there during 5 years and my second son is Canadian. In that period was working and studying in Canada with the intention to become an academic in computer science. However, after I finished my masters degree, no matter I have the chance to continue for the PhD, my family and I decided to leave Canada to return to our country for good.

What happened? It is funny to say, but the true is that we didn’t like it multiculturalism.

When we migrated to Canada we have the intention to assimilate to that society and addopt its values. However, all that Canada kept saying was that we should preserve our indentity and be alliens forever in a country that wasn’t ours.

It is my oppinion that Canada lost its identity in a flood of immigration, which is very bad not only for locals but for immigrants as well.

Romans used to say “In Rome do as Romans”. Well, in Canada nobody has any idea how Canadians do! I remember I asked once a Canadian what was the typical Canadian food of the region and she answered me “Chinese food”… Lol! If I knew it before, I would have migrated to China instead of Canada.

Immigrants have to addapt to locals and not the other way around. That’s what we do, at least, in my country, Chile. And perhaps that was the reason I left Canada: a beautiful country with lot of opportunities and good people, but where nobody has idea who is it.

Thank you so much for your comments.

I think the accommodation goes both ways, however. For example, I remember some years ago an American servicewoman was upset because she was stationed in Saudi Arabia and resented wearing a veil and long dress in public. However, I think that she joined the military and presumably agreed to be posted in Saudi Arabia, so it is not up to the Saudi authorities to make exceptions for her. If I go to Saudi Arabia, I too would have to accept wearing certain clothing in public (not really a big issue for me, because I have a number of long skirts and dresses), and it’s a little arrogant of me to insist that I do what I do in my own country when I’m over there.

Emilia

I agree with the points you made in your reply, although I would add a slight nuance to this part: “but I strongly feel that while immigrants should be free to speak their native languages, publish newspapers in them, hold ethnic festivals, etc.”

I agree with you that “heritage” languages and customs should not be discouraged, but on the other hand, this encouragement should not take place at the expense of the two official languages of the country.
I’m sure there are still some immigrants who can carry on their daily lives in Canada without learning English and/or French.
As in most other aspects of life, striking a balance is the way to go.

As for this part of your reply:
“I do believe Canada has benefitted from immigration, but when you come to a new country, if you want to preserve your traditions you should do that on your own time and money, and if there are some that are not compatible with Canadian society, either leave them behind or go back to where you came from. I would say most immigrants understand this, but others (and some Canadian-born advocates) have yet to understand this.”
I agree with you wholeheartedly.

Thank you again for posting.

I believe most immigrants are willing to adapt to Canadian society, and if they do want to change something (ex. Sikhs wanting to wear turbans in the RCMP), they have mainly gone about trying to make the change through the legal process.

I’m not saying I’m entirely 100% in support of employment equity for Natives; I just feel that maybe they might have some moral claim to at least have the matter discussed, a claim I don’t think other minorities have in Canada. I do think the Canadian government has made a mess of Native-based policies, from residential schools in previous generations and now with prohibiting White families from adopting Native children. But this is an entirely different matter from employment equity.

I think most people would agree religious laws have no place in the secular legal system. But sometimes it’s hard to distinguish the two. Obviously injunctions like “Thou shalt not kill,” “Thou shalt not steal” would go beyond religious boundaries; most atheists or non-Christians/-Jews would fully accept these as part of our secular legal system.

But take the issue of abortion. Some people believe the drive to outlaw abortion is a matter of Catholics and fundamentalist Christians trying to impose their religious beliefs on others. The matter is somewhat more complicated, though (I’m pro-choice, for the record). Yes, perhaps on average more religious Canadians are more likely to support the anti-abortion position, but the division is not so clearcut. For instance, perhaps the most draconian anti-abortion law in recent years was not in any Catholic country but in the militantly atheistic Communist regime of Romania, which was never Catholic to begin with and which forbade women even to use birth control.

So sometimes it’s hard to separate religious versus secular law.

I agree with you the most shafted group in society is the Natives. They do especially need some targeting.

One thing about your post, you mention about medical school….but in Canada, there is no initiative to tell any kind of school or college who they have to let in and what the quotas are. We don’t put race on any forms to get into university. I know it exists down south but up here you get in or you don’t. The only discriminator is cash flow and if you can swing it between your own cash, your parents cash, and student loans. So I don’t feel that statement about whites getting into medical school applies….not up here. I do see what you are saying though, if a situation occurred at a job where whites appear to be underrepresented based on the community than to be fair something might have to be said to the company but with our set up here, nothing can really be done to the company.

I never addressed the religious side of this post. About that, I feel that people can practice what they want, but have no right to enforce it on others. That goes for people that come here and want to change rules that affect others, and for people born here that want to impose on others. Also, in a country that is not based on a religion, no religious ideas should ever become part of the legal system. That just goes against the whole set up of the society (secular).

I believe in your statement about people “going back where they came from” when it comes to a tradition they don’t want to let go of that is illegal here, or if everything about this country disgusts them. There is no point to stay in a place you hate, but that is not the majority of immigrants out there contrary to opinions I have heard through out my life from people. Its good there are people like you who can oppose the idea while having some sense about the issues, cause there are more extreme and ignorant folks out there than we as a country like to admit.

B

Perhaps I should not have said “appease” if it implied that the “White ethnics” were demanding multiculturalism. I suppose I meant that Trudeau may have been trying to obtain votes from them and he felt that instituting a multicultural policy was a way to do this.

If you click on Jack’s Newswatch, I made a comment on multiculturalism. I don’t think it’s the invention of Satan as some people do, but I strongly feel that while immigrants should be free to speak their native languages, publish newspapers in them, hold ethnic festivals, etc., they should do so on their own dime unless government funding for these activities really benefits the general population (ex. Spanish classes in schools which are not meant to help Hispanic students preserve their heritage but teach students of all origins a language is becoming increasingly useful in North America).

I do believe Canada has benefitted from immigration, but when you come to a new country, if you want to preserve your traditions you should do that on your own time and money, and if there are some that are not compatible with Canadian society, either leave them behind or go back to where you came from. I would say most immigrants understand this, but others (and some Canadian-born advocates) have yet to understand this.

Hmmm, I don’t quite agree with your interpretation of multiculturalism here. Allow me to make a few points:
1. I doubt the ““White ethnics” such as Italians and Greeks” were actually making many demands, except the possibility of working and making a living for themselves and their families. At that time, there were not that many organizations that advanced immigrants’ causes, nor was there the kind of help such as welcoming classes, health care (after 3 or 6 months’ residence ?), as well as other mechanisms to fight real or perceived discrimination.
Also, to most immigrants, Canada was part of that amorphous promised land called “America” – the land of limitless opportunity.

2. Perhaps Trudeau wanted to differentiate Canada from the US, where the “melting pot” philosophy was prevalent at the time, in contrast to the “Canadian mosaic.”

3. Lastly, and perhaps the most important aspect, perhaps the policy of multiculturalism was also Trudeau’s way of attenuating the demands of French Canadians, reducing their status to that of one among many other “communities” constituting Canada, i.e. going from the “two nations” view of Canada to a more cosmopolitan view, where every ethnic group had equal standing, regardless of how long they had been here.
http://www.canadianheritage.gc.ca/progs/multi/canada2017/policy_forum/8_e.cfm
“… Multiculturalism was original [sic] conceived in the Trudeau era as part of a four-pronged approach, the other components being bilingualism from coast to coast, a just society, and the Charter of Rights and Freedoms. ….

As part of a nation-building strategy to create a common Canadian identity that embraced everyone—including Québécois—Weinstock said multiculturalism was really a political tool to diffuse political expression from all cultures. Multiculturalism said Québécois were different, but so is everyone else, and by giving up distinctness all cultures in fact gained a much larger stage and greater resources on which to affirm their own identities.”

While it may have had noble intentions, the policy of multiculturalism has instead contributed to diluting the idea of “Canadianness”, IMHO. Instead of helping immigrants (like myself) identify with the national identity – Canadian – the policy has instead encouraged immigrants to hold on to their own national origins, and some have even imported their own national battles, instead of leaving that baggage where it belongs – in their country of origin.