The hijab (headscarf worn by Muslim women) has been getting a great deal of attention lately. A father in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada killed his teenage daughter for allegedly refusing to wear the scarf. Halfway across the world, fifteen students at an all-female school in Saudi Arabia burned to death in a fire after the country’s religious police did not let them leave the building because their heads were uncovered. However, the hijab has its proponents. A Muslim-American (female) writer wonders why many Americans see the veil as a sign of oppression when their own countrywomen are starving their bodies for the sake of “looking good.†One Western woman who converted to Islam and started covering her hair enjoyed the fact that construction workers no longer catcalled at her. So is the hijab a tool of women’s oppression or an instrument of their liberation? The answer, in my view, is more complicated than both the veil’s defenders and opponents are willing to admit.
What some Muslim women claim the hijab makes them feel free – free from sexual harassment, free from pressure to be “beautiful†in the eyes of others, free, in a sense, from being objectified as women by society in general and by men in particular. For example, a former “all-American girl†who converted to Islam wrote some years ago in the now-defunct Sassy Magazine that the veil led people to see her as a full human being rather than a sexual plaything. And most of these women emphasize that the hijab is a choice. One such woman is Faten Hijazi, a computer engineering student and former president of the Muslim Student Association at San Jose State University. She explains that the veil cannot be forced on an individual and that Islam prescribes modesty for both men and women. In her opinion, the hijab also protects women from obsessing over their appearance to the point of, in some cases, falling victim to eating disorders.
The stories in the first paragraph of this essay have forced me to look at the issue of the hijab from the perspective of a non-Muslim woman. On one hand, as a fairly modest dresser myself I identify to some extent with the above-mentioned women. At present my active wardrobe consists of several pairs of long loose pants and a few calf-length skirts. My even remotely sexy dresses, which in any event come down just to the knee, have been collecting dust at the back of my closet because wearing them would make it awkward for me to breastfeed my eight-month-old daughter. And forget Britney Spears-type outfits, which would be a little unseemly due to my visible caesarean scar. I also understand the wish to avoid catcalls from men. I remember agonizing almost weekly as an eleven-year-old undergoing early puberty when the boys in my class teased me about posing for Playboy. While looking back now my primary school travails seem almost humorous, I have to wonder whether the boys would have subjected me to their needling had I been wearing a veil.
Nonetheless, I have a few problems with some of the arguments put forth by hijab defenders. I think first of the woman who said once she started covering her hair men stopped whistling at her. In my view a woman who dresses like Madonna shouldn’t be too shocked if men catcall at and/or make suggestive comments to her (though of course no actual touching should be tolerated). But is it necessary to wear the hijab, or in some cases the niqab (a veil that leaves only the eyes uncovered) or full-body burqa, to prevent harassment? Some men will catcall at women no matter how the latter dress. It furthermore seems somewhat disconcerting to imply that women should expect to be sexually harassed if they don’t conform to Islamic standards of modesty. One Arab website, for instance, suggests that one reason for the rape of Filipina domestics in the Gulf States is the women’s attire. On the site is a picture of two Filipinas in short-sleeved blouses and skirts cut just below the knee. These women struck me as no more immodestly dressed than most out-of-habit Catholic nuns and as much more modestly attired than the average Western woman today. In addition, one has to wonder, judging by that particular website, whether the concern for women’s welfare Muslim commentators frequently attribute to Islam applies to all women or just to those deemed “virtuous†enough.
I now want to address the hijab from the perspective of a practising Christian. Christianity, at least in its mainstream version, does not possess any dress codes for women, or men for that matter. Of course most people would agree that going into a church in a microskirt is both socially inappropriate and disrespectful to the religion itself. However, I have to question the concept that one, particularly a woman, has to dress in a certain manner in order to be considered a faithful member of a religion (note: some Muslims say that the Koran does not specifically require women to veil themselves; I don’t know enough about Islam to provide an expert opinion on this). I tend to see faith as more of an internal than external matter. I’m not saying that women who do wear the hijab are trying to broadcast to the world “Look at what a good Muslim I am!†But as one Muslim woman – actually, Sara Balabagan, the Filipina domestic worker who was acquitted of murdering her employer after he tried to rape her – put it, what use is it to wear a veil if one does not follow Islam’s teachings.
The biggest problem I have with hijab defenders is their implication that to veil or not to veil is always a free decision on the part of the woman in question. For women in some Islamic countries, like Saudi Arabia, it is not: they are required to cover their heads when out in public. One might argue that the students burned at the above-mentioned school in that country died from a lack of choice.
This brings me to another matter: should Muslim girls be allowed to wear the hijab in public secular schools? The issue became the subject of an intense debate in France. The authorities there answered the question in the negative. While this decision was applauded by French conservatives and endorsed by some Canadian conservatives, like National Post columnist Barbara Kay, the left’s reaction was more ambiguous. The Nation columnist Katha Pollitt spoke of an acquaintance of hers, a forward-thinking (female) academic who at first supported the French Muslim girls’ “right†to wear the veil to class as an expression of their religion and culture. Pollitt’s friend changed her mind, however, upon hearing some of the girls themselves say they appreciated the French authorities’ ban on the hijab because otherwise their parents would have forced them to wear it. I on one hand don’t necessarily share Barbara Kay’s view that a similar ban in Canadian schools would have saved the life of Aqsa Parvez, the Mississauga girl killed by her father for supposedly refusing to put on the veil. On the other hand, Kay is right to state that the hijab can’t be equated to a Christian cross worn by a female high school student (I also suspect some schoolgirls wear a cross not to show their faith but to emulate their idol Madonna, who uses the crucifix in her stage acts).
The hijab is a complex issue, for which there are no easy answers. But to regard it as a sure sign of either women’s oppression or liberation appears somewhat extreme in both cases.
My daughter just turned 14 and in high school. Should I force her to cover her beauty in an effort to protect her from unwanted attention? Why not teach her to be strong and self-confident so she needs not fear for her safety and doesn’t not worry about peer approval instead!!
My take of the hijab is this: if someone chooses to wear it, that’s fine… but as soon as someone is forced to do so, that’s a problem. That a father could kill his daughter as a result of her defiance is bizarre.
It’s strange… my hair is usually in such disarray that I joke that if I wore a hijab all the time in public I wouldn’t need to worry about doing it up. But you are right about teaching your daughter self-confidence.
I’m going to have another article about the hijab coming out soon. Regarding your words “My take of the hijab is this: if someone chooses to wear it, that’s fine… but as soon as someone is forced to do so, that’s a problem,” I suppose the problem is, especially with girls under 18, you never know if they really want to wear the hijab or if it’s being forced on them by the family. Adult women, I guess even if they wear it under pressure it’s a different thing (at least in Canada), but with teens I’m not so sure.
But thank you for the comment!
In Islam, men are told to lower their gaze when they
see a woman.
“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze and be
modest. That is purer for them. God is Aware of what they
do. And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and
be modest.†(Surah ‘Al-Nur’: 30-31)
>”One Arab website, for instance, suggests that one
>reason for the rape of Filipina domestics in the Gulf
>States is the women’s attire.”
So this is a stupid remark if the persons who committed
the crime were muslims.
And for the women:
“And say to the believing women……that they should
draw their head-coverings over the neck opening (of their
dresses) , and not display their ornaments except to
their husbands, their fathers…..”
Surah ‘Al-Nur” (The Light); ayat 31 (part of)
http://www.irf.net/irf/dtp/dawah_tech/ques17.htm
Now, about the father who killed his daughter for not
wearing a scarf. This is no Islam. He committed a
murder. And in the school in Saudi Arabia, that is
also a criminal act.
In Islam, one person is responsible for his/her own
actions. It is not for us to judge other people and
force them to do things “we” think are right. let alone
killing them for doing things “we” think are wrong.
What is the purpose of day of judgment if we take the
powers of God in our hands.
Dear Arslad,
Thank you for your clarifications. This father may have used Islam as an “excuse” for killing his daughter. Unfortunately other belief systems – whether Christianity in medieval Europe or atheism in the former USSR – have also been used to justify atrocities, so it is wrong to smear all followers of such philosophies by the misdeeds of the few or to single out Islam in particular. I was encouraged to see a number of Muslim leaders here in Canada speaking against Mr. Parvez’s actions.
Regarding the question of whether the veil is mandatory in Islam, it should be noted that women of other faiths in the general region (around the Mediterraean) also often wore head coverings. For instance, St. Paul encouraged Christian women to cover their hair in church. Even today the Eastern Orthodox Church requires women to cover their heads during the Mass (though as far as I know Orthodox women are not required to wear a hat or veil outside the church).
Personally I like to cover my hair (with a hat), not for religious reasons (my church doesn’t require it) but simply because it “absolves” me of having to spend the time doing up my hair!
Emilia
The incident of Saudi Arabia just was an accident. It was not planned as the writer of this article is trying to convince their readers. I just gonna wonder that why people not to hesitate about making false claims in the favour of their selfish thinking.
Dear Insha Marri,
So what was the real story?
Emilia
Dear Emilia,
I think you didn’t pick my words. As I mentioned previously that it was an accident ‘a fire brok out in building’ but not was a conspiracy as you trying to prove here.
Islam and its ethics are today target by you people but I do not think so will be succeed in your mission. By the way, by criticing Islam you will become a famous writer because it a very cheap and easy way to get momentum in your career and job.Anti Islam views made easy many people to get fame in a very short time. After all, this is a part of so called war of terrorism.
That “you people” reference seems to indicate Insha Marri clearly doesn’t consider anyone who isn’t Muslim as a peer. Notice how Insha Marri doesn’t dispute anything we’ve said logically, choosing instead to concentrate of denunciation.
Tell you what, Insha Marri, Islam doesn’t need our help to look bad. If every writer in the world suddenly stopped writing criticism of Islam forever, it wouldn’t make any difference whatsoever. What makes Islam despised and feared isn’t words of writers.
It’s Islamic irhabists and their hirabah which causes fear and despite. It’s the silence of Muslim moderates, apparently too afraid to confront the evil within their community or perhaps, even worse, agreeing with it. It’s the continuous defence by people like Insha Marri by attacking those who dare to question Islam and challenge the atrocities committed in the name of Islam.
Emilia Liz, I hope I haven’t overstepped by responding to this. If so, feel free to remove my post.
Mac, don’t worry; I always like to encourage dialogue. So thank you very much for contributing.
Insha, I challenge you to find where I called the fire a “conspiracy.” The fire was obviously (as far as we know) an accident; I am more interested in the authorities’ reaction to it (i.e., not letting the girls leave without their veils).
I don’t deny there are many progressive Muslims, including one group in Canada, the Canadian Islamic Congress. I have nothing against Islam per se. What I am challenging is the fanatical forms it sometimes takes, like the insistence that all Muslim women (and sometimes non-Muslim ones if they live in places like Saudi Arabia) wear the hijab. I agree with Mac that if Muslims think “others” are making their religion look bad, maybe it’s time they looked in the mirror. As a practising Christian myself, I might say the very same things about Christianity. For example, I don’t want to be identified with the people who want to bring creationism to the science classroom, who rail against same-sex marriage, etcetera, so I believe it’s my duty to speak out against such people and say they don’t represent all Christians. So Muslims who think they’re being portrayed in a bad light might do the same.
Dear Mac,
Why have gone so deep in your feeling that I was pointing my finger to all of you? I just was trying to show the world that there are certain writers, who write against Islam not for developing theirs writing skills, not intended to tell the truth but to present a scary image of Islam to the world. If my words hurts you then you must examine yourself. May be you one of those writers who are trying their best to cash their Anti Islam thoughts among the peaceful people of this world.
Islam is religion of peace, equality and justice and these are the virtues that make Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world. Why you people try your best to present Islam as the worst religion in the world. If you not one of those writer, then why are you so disturb? Thanks.
Dear Emilia,
You are right that you did not mention the word “conspiracy” in your article but your stance is very very clear in these words:
“The hijab (headscarf worn by Muslim women) has been getting a great deal of attention lately. A father in Mississauga, Ontario, Canada killed his teenage daughter for allegedly refusing to wear the scarf. Halfway across the world, fifteen students at an all-female school in Saudi Arabia burned to death in a fire after the country’s religious police did not let them leave the building because their heads were uncovered.”
Emilia, these are your words and you put them in the first paragraph of your article.I ask you that where are from you got the idea that Saudi Poice did not let them go out without wearing a scarf? You put a blame on Saudi Police without providing a source in your articles. Oh my God! such wording will definately destroy the image of free and fair reporting. Please don’t try another such attack on Saudi but targeting Islam and its ethics in the back ground. Thanks.
Dear Insha Marri,
The news about the fire in Saudi Arabia appeared on the BBC (British Broadcasting Corporation) and apparently was reported in the Saudi media.
If you are so concerned about the image of your religion in the West, you would look much better if you condemned such things as the police refusing to let the girls leave the school, the absolutely absurd case of the teacher who was going to be whipped for naming a teddy bear Mohammed, and so on. It’s not people like me who make Islam look bad; it’s the Muslims who commit such acts as well as people like you who fail to condemn them who make it look bad.
Emilia
I searched the whole database of BBC news but didn’t find except this one:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2399885.stm
Oh! my God. Is that your source? This analyses report (year 2002) is based on some allegations but not on a real one. You make a whole article on this allegation. What a good way of fair reporting?
I think, you got the idea from this blog not from BBC because there is no such source there. Is there anyone then please provide me that link on BBC.
http://theframeproblem.wordpress.com/2008/02/04/killing-for-allah-saudi-religious-police-willfully-obstruct-schoolgirls-escape-from-fire-because-they-were-not-wearing-correct-islamic-dress/
Emilia, this is not fair with us. You made a blind mistake by allegaing Saudi Police without a real source by getting influence from a blog writer. You must appolize for your allegations, if you are a real writer.
If I am wrong then please tell me where you got the idea. From that BBC source or from you fellow blog writer. I am waiting patiently.
Dear Insha Marri,
Why do “you people” persist in pretending writers are making up lies about Islam? Did I say I felt you were pointing at me? Did I describe myself as being a writer? One thing is certain… Insha Marri, I don’t fear you. Do you fear me?
It is neither peace, equality nor justice that makes Islam the fastest growing religion in the world; it is prodigious breeding which some claim is being done for tactical reasons. Instead of fighting to overwhelm western democracies, why not out-vote them in a couple of generations?
Do you believe it’s peaceful, equitable or just to use child soldiers, Insha Marri? To send suicide bombers against unarmed civilians, to teach hatred and intolerance in madrasahs, to suppress women’s rights, to kill children who disobey their parents?
What say you, Insha Marri? Can you defend the acts of atrocity, the injustice and cruelty done in the name of Islam? I bet you’ll simply continue to deny reality.
Insha Marri,
This is the link I found http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1874471.stm and used in writing my article. If you find anything disputing this report, please let me know.
Dear Mac,
Sorry for my pooe English as it is my fourth language.
You write:
“Why do “you people” persist in pretending writers are making up lies about Islam?”
My comments:
Positive criticism is one thing but you can not ruled out completely that there is no such creatures are there in western media and in the ranks of intellectuals and writers, whose soul intentions and aims are that, by which new way, they insult Islam and Its values and enrage Muslims and bring them on streets for protests. Isn’t that? Can you condemn any such posture against Islam? I bet you can’t. You’ll simply continue to deny that reality and considered these rubbishes as “pearls of wisdom”. What would you say about Danish’s cartoon episode? Certainly, you will say that these are “expression of art” and nothing else. Queen Elizabeth II of England has honored a “Knighthood” to a controversial writer Salmon Rushdie for his “best achievements” in writing That man is famous for his anti Islamic literature and usage of abusing language in his writings.
You write:
“I don’t fear you. Do you fear me?
It is neither peace, equality nor justice that makes Islam the fastest growing religion in the world; it is prodigious breeding which some claim is being done for tactical reasons.”
My comments:
You wrote that you don’t fear from me. That is good but at the same time you feared that there is a tactical mission is going on in the form of Muslim’s “prodigious breeding” which one day may not out-number your western world. I wish it could be! But you can not deny the virtues of peace, equality and justice, which are widely converting individuals worldwide from their parent religion to the faith to Islam. If you in your dream that this is due to the “Muslim’s prodigious breeding” and nothing else then keep it up. You may be wake up on that day from you sweet dream when you daughter herself become a Muslim as Islam is the number 1 choice for conversion in the world especially among girls and women.
Your write:
“…Instead of fighting to overwhelm western democracies, why not out-vote them in a couple of generations?”
My comments:
As for as your western democracy concerns; It is worth to mention that it is a derived out from the ancient Greek and Roman’s philosophy and political systems. Your religion doesn’t provide you a complete way of life that how to live, compete and make struggles in life. Islam is not just a faith based religion as like Christianity and other religions. It has it own political, cultural, economical and social systems. You can not find such things in Christianity. That is the reason that “you people” developed various economic and political system one by one in the form of communism, socialism and capitalism. In your democracy, you must call the sunny day “a night” when majority of voters in the assemblies and a government say it is “a night”. According to Islamic political system, you can not call a sunny day “a night” whether the majority of voters consider it “a night” or not.
Dear Mac, keep your so called democracy and its value with yourself and don’t spoil our culture. We have an alternative and a better political system in the form of “Khilafet” system. We had experience in it when the Western world was in dark and illiterate. The troubles come when “you people” invaded our land and colonized it with you agenda. When “you” saw that you are being kicked out sooner or later from our land, that time “you people” sow your “democracy” seed here.
Your write:
“Do you believe it’s peaceful, equitable or just to use child soldiers? To send suicide bombers against unarmed civilians, to teach hatred and intolerance in madrasahs, to suppress women’s rights, to kill children who disobey their parents?”
My comments:
“How many suicidal bombs were exploded in Iraq and Afghanistan before the invasion of USA on them? How many? Can you tell the number! Not a single one.
Dear Insha Mari,
after carefully reading your posts, I came to the conclusion that you don´t understand English, which is why you should stop posting on any forum or blog until the day you learn the language well enough to understand not just the words and sentences but more importantly what´s in between the lines and what ISN´T! I myself am Czech and English is not my mother tongue (I could say it´s my fifth language), but surprisingly, I was able to read Emilia´s original post and understand it. I don´t think she meant to say Saudis planed the school accident. When I first read about it (and believe me, the news were all over the world, not just on BBC…) I could not believe, that humans would let other human beings burn to death because they weren´t properly dressed (according to the Saudi law). In cases such as this one, human reasoning should kick in. Seriously, what is more important to you, life or scarf? Because that´s what came to my mind after I have read about the incident. A dead girl is better than an “immodest” one… That´s why those girls weren´t let out of the building and died a horrible death.
Now to you claims about Islam: “Islam is religion of peace, equality and justice and these are the virtues that make Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world. Why you people try your best to present Islam as the worst religion in the world. If you not one of those writer, then why are you so disturb? Thanks.”
I am sorry to disappoint you, but your faith is most certainly not one of peace. According to the Quran, peace only exist in dar al islam, the muslim land, the land of peace. Dar al harb however is a whole other world, that needs to be conquered. I happen to live in that world and I do not wish it to be conquered, because the islamic idea of peace is not something I could agree with. Wanna know why? Because of the so called equality of your religion. True, there is equality, but only for muslims and specifically muslim men at that. Women have a lover status, because Allah wants it so and because men provide for women. But even muslim women have it better, than non-muslims. Christians and Jews are the dhimmis and have to pay a special tax. Polytheist and atheist cannot be dhimmis, they are to be killed. I am sure you know that. Because of all this, there is no justice in Islam. A just religion/system would treat all human beings the same. This leads me to the conclusion, that you have either: 1)never read the Quran (and the Hadith), 2)You are blind to the many horrendous things written in the book or 3)you are a liar (which, according to Quran, you can be if it serves the purposes of Islam). You made a claim, that we people try our “best to present Islam as the worst religion in the world.” The truth is, we don´t need to try. The truth always speaks for itself and in this case, it is ugly.
As you can see, I am not fond of political correctness. To use a quotation from the sci-fi show Babylon 5: “In my experience, if you can not say what you mean, you can never mean what you say.”
One last thing. I would seriously advise you to study logic, because some of your conclusions are ridiculous and lack sense. And please learn to answer questions not with counter questions, but with answers to the topic. For instance, Mac´s question “Do you believe it’s peaceful, equitable or just to use child soldiers? To send suicide bombers against unarmed civilians, to teach hatred and intolerance in madrasahs, to suppress women’s rights, to kill children who disobey their parents?” should have been answered with a sentence possibly beginning with the words: “I think/believe that suicide bombings are wrong/right,” and maybe continue by an explanation why you think that. Your statement that before the start of the “war on terror” there were no suicide bombers (please back it up by some verifiable statistic) does not answer Mac´s question.
P.S. Please excuse the many mistakes (grammar, spelling,…), I am still learning.
Dear Insha Marri,
Please provide a single example of public criticism of Islam (positive or otherwise) which was not subject to outraged denunciation by Muslims. I sincerely doubt you will be able to do so.
The “bad” examples you quoted (ie: Danish cartoons and Rushdie) are two examples of massive and inappropriate reactions by Muslims and excellent evidence that your “religion of peace” is not all that peaceful.
It’s not unusual for Islamic papers to publish anti-Semitic cartoons (many examples are available) and that’s not a problem… yet these Danish cartoons were only mildly critical of Islam yet people were killed, protests were held, death threats made to the point that most western media sources were afraid to publish these cartoons. Compliance through fear; the way of Islam?
Ahmed Salman Rushdie’s fourth novel “The Satanic Verses” wasn’t specifically critical of Islam as it was based in a fictional setting. I’ve read it. Have you? Yet Rushdie was condemned to die for writing fiction. Bravo, supposed religion of peace. By the way, Rushdie was famous BEFORE he wrote “The Satanic Verses” as his second novel, “Midnight’s Children” won the Booker Prize in 1981 but don’t let little things like facts get in the way of your blind hatred. I bet you haven’t read “Midnight’s Children” either.
You write of the widespread conversion of individuals to Islam through the virtues of peace, equality and justice. Yet, nations where Islam becomes a political force are constantly embroiled in conflict, the Qur’an insists women and children be treated as chattels and Sharia Law is inconsistent, cruel and unjust. I can easily support my assertion of the population-based growth of Islam. Can you similarly support your claims?
By the way, I don not need to worry about my daughter converting to Islam as she is far too strong willed for the absolute submission which Islam insists on women.
Insha Marri, western countries will keep practicing democracy. As far as your culture and your warped Caliphate system, it is long overdue for Reformation. Who will be your Martin Luther, Insha Marri?
bberri, I didn’t have any problem with your spelling or grammar. I know English is a difficult language to master but you’re doing fine! I do not expect Insha Marri to answer my questions or points directly or truthfully. To do so would be a betrayal of his faith. I wrote my points for the benefit of anyone else who might read this.
Funny Insha Marri would bring up Afghanistan and Iraq. There are numerous examples of all of the evils which I mentioned long in advance of these very recent conflicts. Selective and adaptive history is an Islamic specialty, isn’t it, Insha Marri?
Hi. I’ve been away for some time (in the process of getting a new computer, starting a new job, etc.) so it’s nice to know that the debate is still going on. Thank you to everyone who has comments. Welcome, bberi; it’s nice to get a non-Western (and non-Islamic) perspective as well.
I must say that I find much “religion bashing” like Dutch politician Geert Wilder’s most recent anti-Islamic film puerile and tiresome after a while. I can see how Muslims might be offended. (I also think Muslims might want to clarify that Wilder’s presentation of female genital mutilation as an “Islamic” practice is not altogether accurate; yes, some Muslim groups practise it, so do Christian and animist roots in the same regions, and the procedure actually predates Islam by many centuries.) However, I think we can draw the line at showing offence and taking actions like fatwas in the name of Islam. Also, again, I can see how Muslims would be offended by things like Wilder’s film. However, when they demand the whipping of a woman who – stupidly, I admit, but very innocently – named a teddy bear Mohammed, can you see why many Westerners can’t take Islam very seriously?
I hope that you can distinguish between being offended at something and actually advocating or committing violence at the individuals who cause that offence.
Its looks very ridicule and funny that only you and Mac, responsible and expert, are left in this world alone to judge that what is wrong and right for the whole world. You are not more than of two individuals and not the legal representative of whole world and clearly not of any religion, race, country, organization or society too. Same situation apply on me but on which post, I said that Christian, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion of this world is not peaceful or I made any illicit comments in my posts.
Second, I would like to make very clear that what was I commenting that “Islam is religion of peace, equality and justice and these are the virtues that make Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world” doesn’t necessarily demands you that “you people” must give a credit or certificate to Islam for that. So repeating my words over and over in your posts and making summersaults with them will not going to help you in any way. Surely, Islam is a religion of peace, equality and justice and every year hundreds and thousands people, of all over the globe and from different races, ethnics groups and inherits of various religions are converting to Islam. They are not deaf and blind as like of you people. What I can do for you? I only can pray for you. You rightly point out that the truth always speaks for itself and in this case, it is not ugly but beautiful. Just search on Google.
You seriously advised me to study logic. Thanks for this noble help. Now I try to answer to those questions one by one which were raised by Mr. Mac.
Q. No.1. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or just to use child soldiers?
Answer: This question is directly not linked with the topic that we are discussing. Mainly, it is always the geo-political condition(s) of a particular region rather than a religion to decide whether there is a dire need of utilizing juvenile force in combats against the mighty and powerful enemy or occupier or not. Mainly child soldiers are used in group of those countries which are heavily involved in regional conflicts. I still did not understand that what was the motive of Mr. Mac for raising this particular question? Every body know very well that child soldiers are mainly used in poor countries of Africa and countries like Sri Lank (Tamil tigers), Nepal (Maoist) and India (Moist and many ethnic movements). Hardly any Muslim country is involved in any type of this menace in a large scale as like others. In my opinion, the practice of juvenile combating is shameful for the whole world. It is not the issue of any particular country, race, religion or nation. It should have been banned for the sack of humanity.
Q. No.2. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or justice to send suicide bombers against unarmed civilians?
Answer: If the targets are unarmed civilians only then I say NO WAY. If the target are the troops of the enemy and occupiers of ones land and country then I say HIGHLY APPRECIABLE. If the targets are those unarmed civilians, who are heavily involved in the activities of betrayal of their own countries or working with the enemies then I say these attacks are NOT AVOIDABLE.
Q. No.3. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or justice to teach hatred and intolerance in maddrasas.
Answer: Literally, Maddrasa means “school”. But now the term is referred for that religious school in Islamic countries which are educating and feeding free of cast to those children and students, who belongs to deprived families of the society. These Maddrasas are mainly run by the help of the charities of Muslim Ummah. According to Islamic teaching and tradition, these maddrasas are not allowed to teach hatred and intolerance in any country or in the world. Is there any Maddarsas in your sight existing which is being used as a terrorist base for the world then point out that Maddarsas. Can you provide us the name of any such Maddarsas? It would be more specific to give names instead of just putting blames.
Q. No.4. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or just to suppress women’s rights?
Answer: No way but what is your motives to ask such questions? Are you in doubt that Islam suppresses women’s rights then certainly you are one of the ignorant about Islam? Give me the areas where Islam suppresses women. Please also tell me the criteria of judgment. Are you trying to compare Islam with another religion or with any other way of life?
Its looks very ridicule and funny that only you and Mac, responsible and expert, are left in this world alone to judge that what is wrong and right for the whole world. You are not more than of two individuals and not the legal representative of whole world and clearly not of any religion, race, country, organization or society too. Same situation apply on me but on which post, I said that Christian, Judaism, Hinduism or any other religion of this world is not peaceful or I made any illicit comments in my posts.
Second, I would like to make very clear that what was I commenting that “Islam is religion of peace, equality and justice and these are the virtues that make Islam as the fastest growing religion in the world” doesn’t necessarily demands you that “you people” must give a credit or certificate to Islam for that. So repeating my words over and over in your posts and making summersaults with them will not going to help you in any way. Surely, Islam is a religion of peace, equality and justice and every year hundreds and thousands people, of all over the globe and from different races, ethnics groups and inherits of various religions are converting to Islam. They are not deaf and blind as like of you people. What I can do for you? I only can pray for you. You rightly point out that the truth always speaks for itself and in this case, it is not ugly but beautiful. Just search on Google.
You seriously advised me to study logic. Thanks for this noble help. Now I try to answer to those questions one by one which were raised by Mr. Mac.
Q. No.1. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or just to use child soldiers?
Answer: This question is directly not linked with the topic that we are discussing. Mainly, it is always the geo-political condition(s) of a particular region rather than a religion to decide whether there is a dire need of utilizing juvenile force in combats against the mighty and powerful enemy or occupier or not. Mainly child soldiers are used in group of those countries which are heavily involved in regional conflicts. I still did not understand that what was the motive of Mr. Mac for raising this particular question? Every body know very well that child soldiers are mainly used in poor countries of Africa and countries like Sri Lank (Tamil tigers), Nepal (Maoist) and India (Moist and many ethnic movements). Hardly any Muslim country is involved in any type of this menace in a large scale as like others. In my opinion, the practice of juvenile combating is shameful for the whole world. It is not the issue of any particular country, race, religion or nation. It should have been banned for the sack of humanity.
Q. No.2. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or justice to send suicide bombers against unarmed civilians?
Answer: If the targets are unarmed civilians only then I say NO WAY. If the target are the troops of the enemy and occupiers of ones land and country then I say HIGHLY APPRECIABLE. If the targets are those unarmed civilians, who are heavily involved in the activities of betrayal of their own countries or working with the enemies then I say these attacks are NOT AVOIDABLE.
Q. No.3. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or justice to teach hatred and intolerance in maddrasas.
Answer: Literally, Maddrasa means “school”. But now the term is referred for that religious school in Islamic countries which are educating and feeding free of cast to those children and students, who belongs to deprived families of the society. These Maddrasas are mainly run by the help of the charities of Muslim Ummah. According to Islamic teaching and tradition, these maddrasas are not allowed to teach hatred and intolerance in any country or in the world. Is there any Maddarsas in your sight existing which is being used as a terrorist base for the world then point out that Maddarsas. Can you provide us the name of any such Maddarsas? It would be more specific to give names instead of just putting blames.
Q. No.4. Do you believe it is peaceful, equitable or just to suppress women’s rights?
Answer: No way but what is your motives to ask such questions? Are you in doubt that Islam suppresses women’s rights then certainly you are one of the ignorant about Islam? Give me the areas where Islam suppresses women. Please also tell me the criteria of judgment. Are you trying to compare Islam with another religion or with any other way of life?
FORCING women to wear the hijab under threat of beating with sticks or beheading is unequaled suppression. That much should have been obvious.
Did you ever meet with a Muslim woman then how you say that women are being forced to wear the Hijab by treatening with sticks or beheading. I bet you cant. You just relys on those news and reprots which western media (not necessarily free) feed up you.
Please make an arrangement for meeting with a Muslim woman who wears a Hijab.
The actual situation is that our mothers, sisters and daughters are feel sorry about your women conditions in your so called free society.
Our Muslims society have respects towards women whether she would be in a form of mother, sister, daughter and wife in whole of her life.
Your teen age girls are already lost their vaginity and chastity when they still not reach the legal maturity of sex in your society. Over 90% of your girls and women make illicit relationship with anyone and no one in your society to condame such habits.
What is chastity. Did you know the meaning of this word?
Millions websites containing the sexual and most dirtiest pictures of your cultures, your mothers and fathers, your disters and daughters. How many websites have you found which containing the picutures of Muslims woman and girls? How many?
It is very easy to say and write that Hijab is sign of suppression but what it can help a woman to protect her respect and honor in this society. Is this not a miracle of Hijab?
That’s all very quaint, Insha. Unfortunately, you know very well that not 100% of women in these Muslim countries want to wear the Hijab. What will happen to them once they try to take it off? Compare that to what happens here when a woman puts one on.
BTW, I’m not illiterate on Arab affairs – I know about middle eastern polygamy, harems and 1-day marriages (which Osama Bin Laden’s father mastered). Chastity? When Muslim women marry at the age of 14 there’s barely any chance not to be chaste without being molested. So to cloak your Muslim sex in meaningless ceremonies is … just that. Meaningless. We have our own quickie marriage ceremonies – just go to Vegas.
That’s the difference between the West and the Islamic world. Here you have the choice to cloak up like a ghost and hide yourself from the world so to avoid any “urges”. Other there you HAVE to.
Hi, it’s me again.
To Insha, I share many of your concerns about the oversexualization of society. For instance, I’m not a fan of teen sex, not because I think it’s “immoral” but because most teenagers lack the emotional maturity for sexual relationships.
I think the hijab issue boils down to a question of choice. No, not all women (especially teenage girls) do have a choice as to whether to wear it. If they did, there would not be all this controversy over it. For example, some Catholic nuns wear their traditional habits, with veils over their hair and long dresses. But nobody finds that controversial because practically all of these nuns have chosen that lifestyle and chosen to dress like that (and many convents permit their members, who have in almost all cases joined them by choice, to wear lay clothing). So I think until hijab becomes a choice for every woman who wears it, there will be a debate about it.
Peace be to you and your family,
Dear All,
That is a very interesting dialogue you people are having here. I particularly commend Emilia for trying to moderate two individuals, Ms. Insha Marri and Mr. Mac.
I agree with mr.Mac on many points, there are a lot of atrocities being committed in the name of Islam some as you mentioned. However, that is the fault of us muslims, as we dont follow our Deen completely, which is how we our instructed to to follow it. Islam is not just a religion, it is a complete way of life, and sadly we muslims of today have failed to understand that. Had we been practising it the way Allah commanded us to, you guys would have been impressed. We mix our own beliefs in our Deen and then practice it. This is our fault and a grave one for that matter. You can see what its leading to. However, I suggest, you read a summary of the Quran, I’ll try to post an author, if you’re interested. Being a Pakistani, I havent read many english translations, however i’ve heard some our commendable. You will then see that it is not the fault of Islam, its the fault of us muslims. And yes, we females do have rights in Islam, we can vote, be present in the government, and the hijab issue is controversial…and I agree Saudi Arab is harsh on that, specially if we compare it to what their men do going around the world. And I know that not every muslimah opts for it, many are forced to do it…but that is against Islam. And yes, we’re sensitive to the condemnation of our Prophet (Peace be upon him) because we follow a Deen (though imperfectly) and not a religion. And if a muslimm condemns another prophet or sacred individual of anyother religion, I assure you its unIslamic.
And, ms.insha, you are being too defensive and so are not being rational in some of your statements. I appreciate your last post where you tried to be a bit rational, but think for yourself, how can we win the heart of non muslims if we display this kind of behaviour. No we cannot and that is very obvious.
I hope i have made my point clear. InshAllah.
Until the next time, take care
May God (Allah) be with you
Dear Nida,
Thank you for responding. I believe that any belief system can be corrupted to suit the needs of some of its followers. I say even as a practising Christian that this is true of Christianity as well. Nor does the belief system in question have to be a religion: thousands of people were killed under Communist regimes in the not-so-distant past.
Regarding the hijab, it is not a concept exclusive to Islam. For example, in a Russin Orthodox Church near my home women who attend are required to cover their head during the service (though as far as I know Orthodoxy does not require them to wear a head covering outside of a church). Interestingly, in a book I read by an Afghani woman, she noted that before the Taliban came to power she and her female relatives only wore hijab during religious services, not outside them.
I suppose the problem some non-Muslims have with the hijab is that sometimes it is difficult to know, especially in the case of teenage girls, whether they are wearing it out of their own free choice or pressure from their family and religious community.
I’m pleased to see that some moderate Muslim clerics are speaking out against extremism, such as the murder of Asqa Parvez. I hold out hope that their voices may one day be the voice of Islam in Canada.
Emilia
Sorry, I meant “Russian,” not “Russin.”
Dear Insha,
I am not a Miss but a Mr. and a Pakistani too. I was defensive because I have no knowledge about usage of proper English, that why I face too many difficulities to express my views very fairly.
I am waiting for your comments on this topics.
Thank you, Nida, for your explanation… and Emilia Liz for your comments as well!! I have more-or-less given up on Insha Marri.
Sorry for my fault in my previous post when I address to myself in a bit of hurry. Being a teacher of mathematics, I always a man of error.
To err is human; to forgive is divine.
Selam,
I am only 17 and live in the west so I know the fear that people get in their eyes when you say “I’m a Muslim” That is why Insha Marri is making me pretty angry. Sir, you spend your time on this site trying to make Mr. Mac believe Islam is not a violent race but dont you know your comments are instilling just that in his mind. Do you even know the difference between Islam and the extremist that try and taint its name? Sir, you have attacked every claim Mr. Mac has made but haven’t provided any evidence that what you are saying is true. I agree with Mac there is a lot of violence in the Islamic world. (Mr. Mac I have found that this violence is because of the government and corrupt leaders rather then my faith) Yes there are violent verses in the Quran but looking back at its history it was send down at a time of war. Their will never be complete peace on this world (my view) so i think Allah gave us those verse as guidelines to what we can and cant do. My favorite verse from the Quran is something like this (sorry at school don’t have time to find exact quote but will be happy to once i get home) “if you kill one man its as if you’ve killed all of mankind and if you save a life its like you have saved all of mankind” I have many more quotes that show that what those extremist are doing is not Islam Allah gave me its what those monsters are trying to create. And I am planning on wear hijab once i graduate high school my mother is to frightened for my safety for me to do it while in high school and its not forced actually i have wanted to wear a hijab ever since i was 13 but i thought my parents would be embarrassed of me (long story) i love hijab because of what it means to me and if i was forced to wear it i wouldn’t feel the same way. It’s not our job to judge only Allah knows all he is the only judge : D
Selam, Hamida.
Thank you and I suspect you’re right about the leaders and corrupt governments. The problem is how to address this source of problems without continuing the violence… and I wish I had the solution!
Peace be with you.
Hamida,
If Islam is so peaceful how do you explain all the hate filled passage of the Quran? A few of the many examples are:
Quran Surah 8, verse 60 – “Prepare for them whatever force and cavalry ye are able of gathering to strike terror to strike terror into the hearts of the enemies, of Allah and your enemies”
Quran Surah 4, verse 56 – “those who have disbelieved our signs, we shall roast them in fire whenever their skins are cooked to a turn, we shall substitute new skins for them that they may feel the punishment verily Allah is sublime and wise”
Quran Surah 4, verse 89 – “they but wish that ye should reject faith as they do, and thus be on the same footing as they, so take not friends from their ranks until they flee in the way of Allah. But if they turn renegades seize them and kill them wherever ye find them and take no friends or helpers from their ranks”
Quran Surah 47, verse 4 – “therefore, when ye meet the unbelievers, smite at their necks and when ye have caused a bloodbath among them bind a bond firmly on them”
Quran Surah 8, verse 39 – “Fight them until there is no dissension and the religion is entirely Allah’s”
Doesn’t look very peaceful to me, but then again maybe you have a different view of peace, like when everyone is a slave to Islam and there is no one left to form their own identities, opinions, or ideas.
Karma,
Actualy, you are not the first one to ask such questions again and again. My dear, explaination about these verses ‘you picked up them randomly here and there from the Holy Quran’ had been delivered many time in the past in many blogs and websites. You should refer to there or contact an Islamic scholar for your satisfaction. Ms. Hadmida is just 17 years old. May be she is able to fully explain about these verses but I am talking in general sense that she is so young. This entry is about the “The Hijab: What does it Mean for women?” If you want to comment on the issue of Hijab then you are welcome.
Thanks,
~ Insha Marri
A such hijab (with rabbit ears on it, for kids), is it haram ?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_94Oa4WVKNc